Networks, groups, private photos/videos/blogs

[mlewis]

>I can appreciate wanting as many features and functions as possible without having to >pay extra for add-ons, and I think Dan so far as done a great job in determining what

No, if I did, I didn't mean to imply without paying for anything.

If Dan is making money, he can spend time on this. If he's not making money, he can't afford to keep things going, hence, no long term viability.

I meant core or base, as in what the app becomes on it's own. I guess I didn't take into account what a module or add on means but it's probably even better if these things are add ons so that users can pick and chose what they want their app to be.

I imagine it's a hard decision trying to figure out what to invest time in to keep an app well oiled and such.

Mike

[jjay]

Well.. Dan,  I guess this is a hot topic...three pages of reply's in one day!  So let's think and talk about these ideas some more ..Very important subject? Looks like the voting is leaning pro...

At this point, the way it's going to be implemented... I'm Against... simple reason... This example... I want my Mom on my friends list, but.. I don't want her to see my photos from last weekend in Vegas!!  I don't want to delete her from my friends list every time I upload photos?...What, then she needs to request to be friends again with me??  This does not make that much sense to me and seems more of a hassle?, I don't think this will fix the Private Photos issue!.

This album then should not be called Private Photos.. then But ...Friends Only Photos... Private Photos is a very basic core for many regular dating and SN sites!  Sure nobody wants the Etano core to become bloated and the script too heavy and bogged down ... Yes,.. Keep things simple...Yes, Everyone agrees to all of these things..  And hopefully everything that's..New gets implemented in the switch On/Off approach..Great!

I just don't understand why a User creating different photo albums and calling them.. Private..or whatever name he chooses.. Then having the option to password protect it is so difficult???  This concept works..on many sites!! ..All this talk about How they keep track of passwords, who has access, for how long, list of friends, list for this or that etc. Confusion? Sorry... I don't go for it!.. Let the user figure his own system, or the option.. not pass protect any albums... at least they have the options...

I hope there is still a way to get this right the first time..I'm not a programmer so don't know the real burdens and limitations of the script> I just find it odd that with DSB.. a older inferior product had something that was maybe simpler and functioned better then in Etano?  Hopefully there is still is a simple solution that will work and that will appease all

-Jay

[Johnboy]

Very good points jjay. Such a simple thing has become complicated.
Maybe a password protect photo addon would solve this.

[admin2]

First: why is your mom in your friends network? Isn't she supposed to be in the family network? So the networks addon that will be released asap should solve this problem.

Now the password issue.
How would you solve the access problem when having passwords given to more friends and you want to remove access for one friend?
Approach #1:
By having more passwords for the same item so you can change/remove the password for that friend.
So if you have 3 private items (1 photo + 1 video + 1 blog) and 2 friends you need to set 2 passwords for every item - that's a total of 6 passwords, right?

Approach #2:
One password for each friend but the same for all private items. This would reduce the complexity from the point above but for 100 friends you would have to set 100 passwords. Are you sure you will remember 100 passwords? Are you sure that your members are smart enough to set an easy to remember password for each friend so they can find it easily? Are you sure that they will actually set so many passwords and won't instead give old passwords that are already assigned?

Approach #3:
One single password for all private items. That's DSB's approach. How would you remove access for only one friend?

Have I missed a point? Is there another approach that I haven't considered? I am not against a MANAGEABLE and easy password solution but I've yet to find one. And if you really want this solution despite the problems then have us custom code it for you. Simple as that. I'm just asking to wait till after the release of 1.13.

[Johnboy]

I appreciate your frustration Dan and I can see that your solution is very practical for the complexity of control over Blogs Videos Photos etc...... BUT for my needs the DSB solution has been very successful so far. Sure you have a point when you say "How would you remove access for only one friend?" But I have had that feature for PHOTOS for the whole time and not once have I had a member complain about that. Though a solution could be: When you do not want someone to access the photos any longer, you change the password. Now most members don't have 100 friends to email a new password to, but couldn't you have an internal system for the members, so that when they change a password it automatically sends an internal message to the members that member does want to know the new password...... Not  that I would require a solution like that as I have had no complaints so far about the present password system.

As this software is not all about me, and you have a far wider and diverse plans, I have all faith in whatever system you come up with as your track record proves that beyond any doubt. All I want is to be able to have that password protect feature just like DSB, whether its part of the package or I have to pay for it. I have always said I have no problem at all about paying for it.

I hope my comments have not upset you, as I REALLY RESPECT your work and integrity, I am only trying to solve an issue that is relatively small (for my solution) but has brought me to a grinding halt. I cannot use Etano without that solution.

[strawberries90]

I just don't understand why a User creating different photo albums and calling them.. Private..or whatever name he chooses.. Then having the option to password protect it is so difficult???  This concept works..on many sites!! ..All this talk about How they keep track of passwords, who has access, for how long, list of friends, list for this or that etc. Confusion? Sorry... I don't go for it!.

Jay, Dan has already told us how difficult and complex this issue is. 

Personally, I want a simple straightforward site, that is lean and mean.  I don't want to compete with massive sites, like myspace or facebook, that are full of so many whistles and bells.  They have the whistle and bells market completely cornered.  I want a relatively straightforward site that my users don't need a manual to get around each time they visit.

The solution IMHO, as JohnBoy says, is for Etano to develop this feature as an add-on, at some point down the line. 

That's a win-win for everybody.  Those who don't need it, don't get held back timewise re the final stable release of etano (nor do they get a bloated script).  Those who do need it, will get it.  Those who aren't sure if they need it or don't need it, can experiment with the addon and then make their mind up.  And if it proves to be a helluva lot of work for Dan's team, he can adjust the price of the addon as appropriate. Everybody wins.

[maverick]

That's simple...when I said above that this functionality is going to be available in one of the next updates I actually meant that it is going to be available as a plugin after one of the next updates.
The general direction for Etano is still going to be neutral. Not favoring SN's or dating sites. And the plugins/addons will not necessary be paid. Just not by default in the core.
But I too think that groups would be great for both types of sites, that's why I said it is going to come asap.

Wow I'm a bit surprised this is still being debated as I thought Dan came up with the perfect solution that should appease most any scenario and need.  Having a basic ALL friends having access to ALL private items for 1.13, and for those that want something deeper then they can install the GROUPS plugin/addon when available. Anyone needing or wanting something different than this should request a custom job. All sounds pretty simple and straight forward to me.

And I also have to agree with Dan, his groups solution is a far better concept for managing friends and private items than a password solution.

[sallyb]

Oh no, please don't make it any more complex than it already is, I have already had a few members leaving because they can't work out how to use the site. I vote for friends can see private photo's it's simple and easy to communicate.

[mlewis]

I vote for password protected albums.

[sallyb]

Can't it be as simple as possible and then do an addon for those that want something more complicated or those of us that want simple will get the full works and these complicated features are already driving members away.

[strawberries90]

Oh no, please don't make it any more complex than it already is, I have already had a few members leaving because they can't work out how to use the site. I vote for friends can see private photo's it's simple and easy to communicate.

spot on, Sally.

You are able to speak from direct experience, since you have a live working etano site.

We don't need the etano core any more complex than it already is.

An addon/plugin, for those who need more complexity, is the way to progress. 

[mlewis]

>An addon/plugin, for those who need more complexity, is the way to progress. 

Either add-on or core, either way doesn't matter to me. We're not expecting thousands of hits per second .

[maverick]

I vote for password protected albums.

Dan already addressed the potential issues of using password protection by giving various detailed scenarios and approaches.

See Admin2's post above.

Have I missed a point? Is there another approach that I haven't considered? I am not against a MANAGEABLE and easy password solution but I've yet to find one. And if you really want this solution despite the problems then have us custom code it for you. Simple as that. I'm just asking to wait till after the release of 1.13.

Keep in mind that Dan's whole concept for Etano is to expand private items beyond that of just photos.

[maverick]

Can't it be as simple as possible and then do an addon for those that want something more complicated or those of us that want simple will get the full works and these complicated features are already driving members away.

Sally, I totally understand what you mean, I love features as much as the next person, but I'm very big on simplicity and user friendliness. So many people think that the more bigger and better features you have, the more chance your site has at being successful. This just isn't true, although features are important, but you can actually over-feature a site. I'll give a couple examples. TraderJoe has mentioned and provided a link to an article ... "The Surprising Truth About Ugly Websites", although being a commercial artist in the point of purchase advertising field for over 30 years I don't buy into his references and concepts that UGLY sells, packaging is important. The point the author of the article was really making, was that simplicity sells, which holds a lot of truth.

Another example as to why I'm an advocate of simplicity .... 3 or 4 years ago when I was hired as consultant and designer for a large dating site project. They spent big bucks hiring programmers to add every top notch feature and toy they could dream up and that was available at the time. (by big bucks, I mean well in excess of $20,000). They didn't heed my recommendations and suggestions that the project and site might becoming too bloated and complex for the average user. They had the mind set that they wanted to have the most feature rich site of any dating site on the market, which they did exceed at accomplishing. They managed to get several thousand members before even going public to get feedback and test the site, and a general common response from users was ... "love the site, looks great, but it's too complicated" ... needles to say the site eventually died because of it, they were in too deep and were tapped out where they couldn't afford to have the project re-structured.

[mlewis]

>Dan already addressed the potential issues of using password protection by giving >various detailed scenarios and approaches.

Yes, I got that, just voicing my thoughts, don't have anything else to add.

Mike