Deadline for upgrade

[keith]

Hi

What is the closing date for the free upgrade license

Regards

Keith

[admin2]

Everyone has a different date. It's 2 months after you received the upgrade email and you have the date in that email.

[TraderJoe]

Dan, do I need to do anything more if I'm still inactive and haven't even opened the first Etano zip file that I downloaded yet (yes, I'm embarassed to admit it, but it's true)?      Now I did see something in the forum a while ago that appeared to indicate one or more update(s) had already been made available, but I mean do I need to go through any further steps pertaining to continuing the new license or getting a new license #?

[admin2]

2 months after the upgrade email your temporary license will be invalidated and you won't be able to access our online server for more updates and patches. You will also loose our support.
If you don't have time during the 2 months period to upgrade you shouldn't have requested the update, especially since we didn't officially started the offer and only those that can't wait are supposed to request it in advance.
We don't mind if you request say 1 more week to complete the upgrade (after the 2 months) but if your temporary license expires and you're not ready then you would break the agreement between us. And you will probably have to pay some penalties to get the final license number (and support again).

If you want to install now I suggest you redownload the whole package the way you downloaded it the first time because it is up to date and has all patches applied.

[marcia]

2 months after the upgrade mail your temporary license will be invalidated and you won't be able to access our online server for more updates and patches. You will also loose our support.

I will not be building the etano site on the domain of my existing live sites.  Instead I will build the etano site on a subdomain of the live sites.  This may take months since I am not rushing and also have a full time job that I work.  Once it is completed and thoroughly tested, I will move etano from the subdomain over to the domain of the live sites.  Do you foresee a problem with this?

[admin2]

As long as your Etano site is kept private and for testing only we have no problem with this. However, as stated above, after 2 months you will loose our free support and the ability to update your site. As long as this doesn't bother you or as long as you're willing to pay for support you can take your time to build your site.

[keith]

Is the Etano script fully stable now and ready for prodution, error free?
Whats happening about the new mod to migrate username and display names (dsb to etano)? this we need to migrate

We have a week or two till our license expires, this means we will have to shut down two sites till we can migrate the screen names across, or buy licenses to keep our business' open till this is ready

[admin2]

I'll pack it today in a package suitable for install. Don't worry, we're not going to block you if it is us who are delaying things.
There's one more update that we will release at the beginning of January with some fixes but it is nothing critical.
Some Etano sites already have 10000+ members and are doing fine (migration from another package).

[marcia]

It will be more than just making the site live.  I addition to the add-ons, I will have to have a new payment gateway programmed (not by me but a professional).  When I do that, all verification of paid vs free within etano will have to be changed, because verification will come from a different DB table.  I have other customizations on DSB that will have to be re-written for etano.  I have already started teaching myself tableless with CSS.  While I take the time to do the sites right, I do NOT like it that I will not have the ability to do updates after 60 days.   

We patiently gave you over a year to come up with a script to replace DSB since you didn't want to do basic mods to improve it.  All you want to give us is 60 unconditional days to make it work for our sites? 

Dan...Please...Say it ain't so...  (10000+ member sites or not)

I am a 46yo construction project manager.  At 46 the brain cells are not what they used to be but in 60 days I can design and build ya 3000 sq ft of office space.  I took one semester of PHP at the community college and learned just enough to be dangerous.  But it takes ME 60 days to write a script from scratch for a contact form!!!   You on the other hand could have it done in an hour.  See the difference in intellect here?

[TraderJoe]

Dan, I think I still may be a bit confused.  If I'm understanding you right, it sounds as if a person is under an obligation to use the script and run an active site in order to keep the right to download normal updates and fixes, and get the final license number, but will lose that right after the 60 days if they don't; however, it sounds as if those who do actively use the script to run a live site simply receive a continuous right to updates and final license number.  In other words, a person is penalized if they don't start using the script even if they're not ready to use it, when they may just want to have it available to use and access to the updates in the meantime.  It sounds like "use it or lose it" instead of just being able to keep it ready to use and having the same rights as anyone else to future updates and fixes.

Also, based on what was being said in the forum around the time people were getting Etano for the first time, it appeared that the opposite was the case about deadlines; i.e., it appeared that people were required to request the free upgrade back then or else they would not be entitled to it later.  In fact, in another thread you had even told me that I had just until the end of that week to make the request.  That was the reason why I completed the upgrade request process to begin with, even though I was still not sure which domain I wanted to publish under - because my understanding was that was the upgrade offer and deadline.  I was not aware that there would be any future upgrade offer that hasn't happened yet, too.

If a person were to just buy Etano now as a new customer, would it be like buying other software, i.e., they could just keep it ready to install and use whenever they were ready to run a live site with it, while still being entitled to future updates and fixes indefinitely or according to the same terms as any other new customer?  I thought that's what it would be, really, as long as someone upgraded from DSB to Etano within what appeared to be the deadline, in other words, a fairly simple or normal and straightforward vendor-buyer situation involving software and the right to future updates. 

As for support, I really didn't know what would be involved for that, and just assumed that any actual bug could just be addressed in the forum or perhaps a company customer service form, or if someone had trouble with something normal they could just raise it in the forum, too, but anything that wasn't a bug would be more like custom work for hire.

I'm very busy, too, and I've also been working very hard on other things while DSB was being remade into Etano since 2005, since I was not going to use another script; frankly, I could use a six month vacation, but just figured whenever I was ready the software and any normal company updates would be available when I became ready to use it if I requested the upgrade in time, or at least available according to the same policy as any other active or inactive DateMill script customer.

[P.S. I just downloaded the most current etano.zip file after posting and have only saved it on my computer for now.]

P.P.S.

Some Etano sites already have 10000+ members and are doing fine (migration from another package).

Without necessarily having to know what the sites are, is there any way we can find out where such sites are hosted, and with what types of hosting plans?  Always good to know where ones like that would be able to work fine.

[admin2]

Ok, let me clarify some things:
1. There's a DSB to Etano free upgrade offer which you all have taken and which is let's say in beta stage. That's because we haven't really started pushing this offer and have made no official announcement other than this forum. The offer will "go live" in January.

2. There are future Etano updates which are actually bug fixes, future improvements, new plugins, etc. These will be both free and paid. It is these updates that I said you will loose if you don't go live within 2 months since you accepted our free DSB to Etano upgrade offer.

I will try to clarify below what drives this need for the 2 months upgrade and I want you to understand that I'm not after squeezing money out of you or something like that. I just want a win-win situation for you and us.
Before going further you need to understand that DSB and Etano are different products.

Etano is not DSB3.0 and neither is it an upgrade of DSB.

According to your DSB license you are entitled to updates for DSB for the lifetime of the product. Since DSB has been discontinued  this DSB to Etano free upgrade offer is not part of the updates you normally would receive for DSB. It's just a separate promotion I want to offer you, not something you're entitled to.

Now let's see:
- you get Etano for free with this DSB to Etano free upgrade offer.
- you get a migration script for free with this DSB to Etano free upgrade offer.
- you get free Etano updates just like a customer who purchased Etano. There's this 2 months period that stays in your way but nevertheless you could get these free updates for free for the lifetime of the product.
- we don't ask for anything in return, not even a backlink from your site to Etano or any other notice.

So far I see only advantages for you with this DSB to Etano free upgrade offer. Our one and only reason for making this offer to you is to be able to build a gallery of sites asap and to have some initial buzz and traction. Bragging rights: "See this site that appeared on CNN? It's made by us!".
If you start your site in half a year or one year from now then we would gain nothing from you and this doesn't seem fair to us.

In this case it seems to me that you're not a candidate for the DSB to Etano free upgrade offer and you should decline it. Instead you should buy an Etano license and start your site whenever you want. 4 years from now on, if Etano still exists then, you will get free updates. Plus you will still have your DSB license so you won't be forced to take your DSB site down.

Since we will officially launch the DSB to Etano free upgrade offer in January, all who take it will be given 2 months from then. Meaning that they'll be given till about mid March to upgrade.
I'll make you all this offer: we'll extend your migration period till mid March too. For all of you who have already accepted the DSB to Etano free upgrade offer.
If you can't finish the migration by then, just buy Etano and take your time. This is the best I can do for you.

And as a separate note: the support you get from us is much more than free bug fixes and some forum replies. Just ask johnboy, strawberries, maverick, bobo, sally, etc.

[TraderJoe]

Dan, that is what I call some first class clarifying - I definitely get it now.  Thanks for this post which has turned the light on for me, and for your nice gift of extending the deadline for us.

But wait - there's more!...

I'll make you all this offer: we'll extend your migration period till mid March too. For all of you who have already accepted the DSB to Etano free upgrade offer.
If you can't finish the migration by then, just buy Etano and take your time. This is the best I can do for you.

Dan, we have traveled many miles together and weathered many storms.   What you have explained all makes sense now.  I would like to suggest that there yet remains something more you can do that would not only be good for Datemill, but us as well, a win-win so fair and reasonable in light of the facts you have clarified that we would surely rejoice over being able to contribute to the DateMill project while taking our place among the ranks of full-fledged Etano customers.   And this is it:

What if, in addition to your nice extension offer above, you also allowed us to simply pay the difference between the last price for DSB and the price for being a new Etano customer with all the permanent rights to updates like other new customers as long as it exists?  This way, we would not have to suffer the loss of what we paid for DSB.  For instance, one could either go live by around March if one was able, or pay the difference ($180 - $89.99 = $90.01).  This could be the best of all possible worlds - no time pressure for those who would gladly pay the difference, and a nice deal for those who go live in time and therefore get to avoid the fee.

In my case for instance, I had only just bought DSB mainly to lock in the free upgrade to Etano.  I didn't even use it except for some brief private testing, and decided to just wait for Etano.  In the meantime, I figured it was good for DateMill to have customers like me because it meant getting certain revenue sooner rather than later, in anticipation of a future event, kind of like the whole idea of the present value vs. future value of money.  DateMill gets sales revenue to take care of business sooner but at a lower amount, while we get the software later but at a very nice discount - win-win.

But everything you have said above makes sense and is very understandable.  And of course, you can include me in that list, too. 

I hope you like this idea, Dan, and I certainly would.  Otherwise, I would simply not have bought DSB and would have just waited to buy Etano.

Ok, well, on second thought, we should probably get a slight discount off the $90.01 since we are previous DSB customers.  That does seem to be the way that kind of thing normally works...

[marcia]

If you start your site in half a year or one year from now then we would gain nothing from you and this doesn't seem fair to us.

2 years waiting.  2 years loyalty.  60 days to make a new script work for free, for free advertising.  Priceless.

I didn't realize 2 years ago I was waiting on a free upgrade in the form of a new script so that you could get free advertising.
 

The version we kept announcing during the last months will be released as a new product, having a different name and structure. Current customers of DSB will be allowed to upgrade to the new application for free for a certain amount of time after we release the new product.

I really thought I was waiting on a free upgrade in the form of a new script as a way to right a wrong. The  expectation of something better made killing DSB bearable.  A way to make things "fair."

Current customers of DSB will be allowed to upgrade to the new application for free for a certain amount of time after we release the new product.

It is one thing to upgrade to the new application.  Click a link, get a license, wallah!  done.  It is a completely different thing to demand a live site that you can use for your benefit in the same time period.

I guess fair is a one-way street.  If I seem angry it is because I am.  I don't like being taken for ride.

[maverick]

I think maybe the point is being missed here, I think more or less what Dan is trying to convey is, if you want to upgrade to Etano from DSB for free, he's only giving you a 2 month grace period to do the migration so you can't have 2 active licenses, one for DSB as well as one for Etano, it has to be one or other, unless you're willing to pay for Etano, then you can have both licenses because you paid for both.

Keep in mind that Etano is not technically an updated version of DSB, it's a totally different product, which means technically nobody is automatically entitled to Etano for free as it's not technically an upgrade of DSB. If he gives a free upgrade and an unrestricted license for Etano as well as let people also keep their license for DSB, they then have 2 working scripts yet only paid for one, which really isn't fair. Yes, it's going to a a bit of a dilemma for some who want to migrate to the new script for free, and also those that bought DSB just so they could get Etano cheaper, and then sit on it until they are ready to use it. For those that feel they can't do the migration within 2 months, then unfortunately their only option is to either pay for Etano or stick with DSB.

In all fairness most software companies that come out with a totally new product don't offer it for free to loyal users or owners of their previous products, they usually only offer it at a reduced price. For example, does Microsoft give Vista free to those that have XP? I think Dan is being more than fair and actually quite nice allowing previous owners of DSB to upgrade to the new product for free, even if there's some time limits or restrictions attached. So I think it's being a bit harsh and unfair to say Dan is taking us for ride or taking us advantage of his customers, after all he could just as easily turn the tables and say some people are wanting to take advantage of his free offer, which many of us did by buying DSB with no intentions of using it but only so they could get Etano at a cheaper reduced price, which I for one took advantage of as well and am grateful I was allowed to do.

Let's also not forget and become too ungrateful, look at all the support and help Dan provides, often for free. Yes it's been a long and often frustrating wait for Etano which many of us hung around and were loyal and supported Dan and the project, but I think it's been a 2 way street, Dan has been pretty loyal and grateful to his customers and followers as well.

[marcia]

Thanks Maverick but I have not missed any points.

Our one and only reason for making this offer to you is to be able to build a gallery of sites asap and to have some initial buzz and traction.

We can agree to disagree on everything you have stated except:

look at all the support and help Dan provides, often for free.

The support for DSB was much appreciated and I am NOT ungrateful.  So grateful am I in fact, that I like you have even helped a few a folks, think of this as a community and even come to Dan's defense on occasion.

The bottom line to this story is that I am no longer waiting for a "free upgrade" in the form of a new script. Why???  Because I cannot build 2 sites in 60 days; even if I wanted to be part of free advertising.(which I don't because it's nobody's business which script I use)

I think I vented my concerns enough...  I should probably leave this issue alone.